# Forum > News > OC News > Articles and Interviews >  Scamming interview

## Forever

Scamming has been around on MMOwned for a long time already.
It has brought good times and bad times to MMOwned.
The scamming section attracted a whole new group of people towards the website, good and bad people.
Now the group of scammers are a small part of the overall members on MMOwned, a side effect of an exploit site.
On the other hand, MMOwned got a very bad reputation from this section.
People are often referring to MMOwned as a scamming website now, while the scamming section is only a root in the tree of MMOwned, and not even the biggest root.
In the end, the scamming section is always a hot topic during staff meetings and in the Shoutbox. 

We were curious to see why some persons are into scamming and what they are getting out of that.
What is better to find that out than to simply interview these people?
We have interviewed Remus3, Nolixz, Chenquie, Mea.Culpa, [F]ear, Chrommie and Hasselhoff and you can see the result here.
 [BREAK=Interview with MarkeeDragon]
First of all, I would like to give a thanks to Marcus for answering our questions. 

From Staff:
We strongly encourage our members to not scam on MarkeeDragon. 

For this article, we were thinking of something to give it more value. KuRIoS came up with the idea of sending in some questions to the creator of MarkeeDragon, a trading site which includes, but is not limited to, World of Warcraft account trading. After all the scammers we wanted to get some thoughts from someone who is a target of many of these scams.

So off I went, thinking of questions that I thought the MMOwned users would like to know. This is the result of it!*


Can you give us a little explanation of who you are?* 
I am Marcus Eikenberry and I’m a serial entrepreneur. I make a living dealing in intangible goods and services within online video games. My companies sell huge volumes of game registration codes and gametime codes as well as providing anti-fraud solutions for other publishers within these online gaming markets.
I started in 1997 selling virtual items within the game Ultima Online. I noticed a couple of sales of UO items on eBay and wanted to try my hand at making a sale there. I took two extra game accounts I had that were about 3 months old and put them up on eBay with full details of all the virtual loot that would be included on them. When I sold the accounts for a combined total of $2400 I knew I was on to something. I thought to myself I could make a full time job of this and do very well. I have ever since then.
Now more than 10 years later, I’ve ended up owning the largest account trading forums in the world. Running a large company that provides online sales for game publishers as well as some second market sellers. 

*When did you decide to create a trading website for MMORPG accounts? How did the website do in the early moments of its creation?*
www.MarkeeDragon.com was created in 2000. Before that we ran under a different domain name that had nothing to do with video games. In 2000 when we put in the new domain name we also created forums. We used a forum tool that came with Front Page 98. We created only one forum and it was for the buying, selling and trading of items with Ultima Online. 
The forum we created was hugely popular with over 1000 posts a day. It was so popular that Front Page had never intended for any forum to get this much traffic. The application broke daily. We were fixing it sometimes up to 3 times per day. We finally went to new software that could handle the load and we found that people were wanting to trade items for other games as well. From there we have just created whatever forums are needed. Today our World of Warcraft trading forums are the most popular.
We never set out to create a trading site. It just happened. So we embraced it.

*How did you come up with the name MarkeeDragon?*
I used the name “Markee” in Ultima Online. Around 1999 I joined the Ultima Dragons Internet Chapter. www.UDIC.org. If accepted as a member you add “Dragon” as your last name. Most anyone you meet in a game these days that has the last name of “Dragon” is most likely an Ultima Dragons member. I don’t believe the group is active anymore. But I still keep the name.

*What are your thoughts about MMOwned? Do you have an account there yourself?*
I do not have an account on MMOwned. I have thought about creating one sometimes to see content that is hidden from non members. But I have never done so. 
As for my thoughts about MMOwned. The site has its place. I do not agree with some of the content but that’s ok. Obviously people are looking for this stuff or it would not be an active community.

*What would it mean for your website if the MMOwned scamming section got removed?* 
I know my sites have been a huge target of posts in the scamming section. Honestly I could go either way on this. If the scamming section were removed it would be less of an issue on our site with people trying to scam our members. At the same time. When people are attempting to do scams on our site we are able to watch and learn. To know how to defend against scams and such you have to understand how they work.

*Have you ever gotten in contact with a scammer yourself? How did you feel after you got scammed or after someone had attempted to scam you?*
I would say that I get scammed daily. It’s a little different though than the average person. I don’t do player to player trades anymore. We do sales of game codes and provide anti-fraud and payment processing for other companies. With the volume of transactions we do daily it also happens that we take some sort of losses daily. 
When we take a loss we look at the entire transaction. Evaluate it. Pick it apart and figure out how we got taken. We then take whatever actions are needed to block that from happening in the future. We are very successful with this as our average fraud rate is 0.03%. That’s a loss of only $3 per $1000 taken in. Thanks to all you scammers out there game publishers now come to us to provide anti-fraud and payment processing because they are taking high losses.  :Smile: 

*Recently, there has been a lot of chaos on MMOwned with regard to a group of people that call themselves "the jackals". Why did you decide to turn into such an aggressive way towards scammers?*
I was contacted by a concerned member that told me they had the resources to catch scammers and then deal with them. It’s all very cloak and dagger. They have revealed to me how they do it. But I do not participate in any of it. I just allow them to take on whatever they feel strongly about. They seem to have had an impact. I applaud their work for that.  :Smile:  

*Bio*
Back in 1990 when the Internet was just for universities and the government, Marcus was doing computer hardware sales to the public. Fraud was very rare and not something that needed much attention.

 In 1993 when Mosaic hit the public, Marcus attempted to start doing business on the web. In 1994 he published computer hardware sales sheets and started doing mail order sales. Not liking dealing with physical products he looked for other products to sell that did not require shipping. In December of 1997 he found the perfect item to sell: intangible goods within online video games.

 Marcus is a pioneer of sales of these intangible video game items and services. Today Marcus owns Markee Dragon INC, ( www.MarkeeDragonInc.com ) which in turn owns several companies. Some of the companies are:

 TrustWho www.TrustWho.com anti-fraud services doing transaction processing and payment verification for companies experiencing high fraud rates. 

 Markee Dragon www.MarkeeDragon.com which is the largest place in the world for the buying, selling and trading of online game accounts. It is estimated that over 2.5 million dollars worth of accounts and services trade hands in this sites forums monthly without any charges to the members.


[BREAK=Nolixz]*
Forever:*
Hello Nolixz and thank you for participating in the first interview. Let's start with the first question of the first interview  :Wink: 
How did you get in touch with scamming?

*Nolixz:*
A long time back, I was kind of scammed. I had a 26 hunter on my alt account, and someone from MMOwned told me that he would power-level my toon for free, and so I gave him my username and password. He power-leveled it for some days then he changed the password. I was freaking out, trying to get the account back. Then I figured out I could scam accounts myself. A long time back when we were almost no people scamming, there were almost none of us scamming WoW accounts. I didn’t know that you could scam accounts, just gold in-game. After that happening, I started to figure out how to scam full info accounts. 

*Forever:*
How long have you been scamming?

*Nolixz:*
I joined in October 2006, I started about one or two months after I joined MMOwned with scamming in-game gold (the backspace scam).

*Forever:* 
Can you remember the very first scam you've executed? Did it work?

*Nolixz:*
Yes, me and some friends was at a LAN and we was chilling in Orgrimmar when it hit me that I could try the backspace scam. I was very nervous. I was going to scam an epic sword, for 400 gold. 400 gold was a lot of gold back then. To my surprise, the scam worked.

*Forever:
*What do you do with everything that you scam?

*Nolixz:
* When I get full info accounts I first ask my rl friends that play wow if they want the account. If not, I will try to sell it on MMOwned\wowtrade. If that don't work I will sell it to some kids that live near me. With UN\PW accounts I usually don't do anything. I have about 1000 tbc accounts waiting to be scammed, but I’ll wait to WOTLK before I take gold etc. Other than that, I have only scammed 
game cards two or three times.

*Forever:*
Do you get a lot of good ideas from the MMOwned scamming section?


*Nolixz:*
Yes, of course. Almost every day I view the scam section to read new methods. It is very hard to find out a new way to scam, that's why you need inspiration from the scamming section to figure out new methods. You just need to be ahead your victim and be creative.

*Forever:* 
Where do you pick your targets?

*Nolixz:*
If I scam WoW accounts, I usually use EU sites like wowtrade.org and wowtrade.com since I’m from Norway. I can also go in game and just whisper a lot of people until I find the right target, then send him a phisher etc.

*Forever:*
What scam are you using the most?

*Nolixz:*
I'm using my own Ultimate account scam, with a big twist.

*Forever:* 
What has your most successful scam been so far?

*Nolixz:*
I've had some characters with Legendary mace (pre tbc) and chars or two to be exactly with Warglaive (only one piece), but those accounts were only with login and password. Other than that, I have scammed full brutal characters in almost all classes, and full tier 6 in every class with full info accounts.

*Forever:*
Do you ever feel remorse for your victims?

*Nolixz:*
I used to, but I don't anymore. Sometimes I give back the accounts just for the fun of it. (I have gained a lot of friends in that way)

*Forever:*
Have you ever gotten in trouble from scamming?

*Nolixz:*
That depends what you mean. With police? No. I remember a long time back, when I had no idea what a hacker was. I tried to scam a hacker. I managed to get his account and he told me that if I didn’t give it back he would take my internet forever. I thought he was joking. 5 minutes later the internet got shut down, and I was freaking out. He DoS'ed me. After the 5 minutes, the internet got back on. He blackmailed me, so I had to give him his account back + another full info account.

*Forever:*
How long have you been a member of COMSA/ESA?

*Nolixz:*
Hmm, I think I joined some months ago, I can't really remember.

*Forever:*
What do you think of that place and its forums? 

*Nolixz:*
Well, I think it is kind of waste of time. You could just post the things in the forum in the scamming section. Share with everyone. Just my personal thoughts.

[BREAK=Remus3]*
Forever:*
How did you get in touch with scamming? 

*Remus3:*
Heh, it all started with emulation; [story mode initialized] 
Remus3:back in 2006 I was messing around with emulation servers and for a good while I leeched around MMOwned not paying attention to the scam section in general, at that time I had a different account which has been long gone, after about 6 months I found a site by the name of ac-web.org I sat there from and helped people get their own servers going and developed till me and a fellow MMOwned member left ac-web.org for good to come and contribute on MMOwned, I delved into the scam section while he [SectorSeven] went head long into emu. 
With our paths separated I started scamming not out of want or need, but because I was good with the type of situations that come with it; thinking on the fly, social engineering, mental stress to develop new ideas and to make them work.
My first rep in the area was for actually helping someone with a scam that landed them 90$. 

*Forever:*
Can you remember the very first scam you've done? 

*Remus3:* 
It was a basic TCG scam, landed me about 3k gold at that time it was underused. The gold was revoked about 4 days later 

*Forever:*
Did you come up with that scam or have you found it on MMOwned? 

*Remus3:*
It was one of the scams I had found on MMOwned

*Forever:* 
Do you ever find any other useful scams you've used in the scamming section? 

*Remus3:*
I had attempted the Backspace scam but it wasn’t something I was good with timing due to latency issues, but another one that landed me quite a few thousand dollars was "Data mining" from DeMoN 

At that time I was partnered with Nyssan on the forums [who I just now got him to register and donate =P] we hit the data mining/social engineering off very well. Our best account we had was a tier 6 account with the main[warrior] in dual sets of T6, and a priest in T5
 
*Forever:*
So you've tried out a few different scamming methods? Which one is your favorite ? 

*Remus3:*
Data mining by far, the victim doesn’t even know it’s been stolen till it is too late. 

*Forever:*
Can you give a short description of what is happening to the victim when you data mine? 

*Remus3:*
Generally the members on various account selling sites use the same email or username as their MySpace/Facebook/other gaming sites/including Steam(few know this one’s potential on finding age etc); all they notice is that one day they can login to their email address (which due to information taken from the public places, the hacker has their recovery information) and the next day they can’t. 

*Forever:
*What do you do with all the goods you scam?

*Remus3:
*If there are low-quality accounts, I try sell them to Chinese buying sites; I usually sell gold to my contacts of whom are mmofly; and I try to sell anything else that I manage to get hold off.. in the off chance of it being a t5+ account I would secure it as much as possible and do a sale on MarkeeDragon.*

Forever:*
Do you never feel bad for the people whose accounts or gold you take? 

*Remus3:*
For Virtual theft like stated, no I don’t. All the goods are illegitimate and can be recovered virtually. =) 

Over the past few weeks I’ve drifted from the ever harder to-do account theft, to sub-federal theft... shoplifting, many will say no that’s bad because it raises the prices of the games (which is what I mainly deal with). If done correctly, there is major money to be made. I am over 18, I know what will happen if caught] 

An example is my growing shop on the forums, from doing this alone I’ve comfortably made $500+ legit in 1 month, selling to a personal source and to the shop  

*Forever:*
That is basically committing crimes, don't you think that is going too far? 

*Remus3:*
Yes I understand it as a crime, but truly.. it’s an exploitation of the stores failed security. Personnel are human and apparently the cameras only work half the time and many loopholes to be made. The only entity I am shorting on their overpriced market is the store itself as the product never gets replaced on the shelf; which prevents other consumers from being jipped.. a dual edged sword 

*Forever:*
Seeing that you're still here talking to me, you haven't gotten in any real troubles yet. Any small affaires with the police or something like that? 

*Remus3:*
Nothing as I have a proven system and many exit paths so to speak, not in running but where social engineering comes into play on what people stereotype 
Not even a glance =) 

*Forever:*
I've heard that you are leader of ESA, what do you think about that community? A waste of time or is it actually useful? 

*Remus3:*
It has some serious potential, some of it is showing through and shining but I’m hoping with some changes in the structure it will glow brighter and better and it will spill into the scam section to provoke people to better their posts and efforts 

*Forever:*
At its current state, is the ESA anything useful and do you agree it that they have their own forum section? 

*Remus3:*
Yes I do believe ESA is very useful it provides a place for the Elite scammers who know the trade in and out and hold their own in any situation, with a community as such on the forums we are there to help provide advice to up and coming scammers and make sure that people don’t get into too much trouble. 
Due to the misconception of the Jackals and ESA(then known as COMSA) We had little dealings with them, we support they want to protect their forums .. we protect ours.. but we did not bow down like slaves to them.

*Forever:*
This leads us to the end of our interview, any last words for those scammers struggling out there to get into ESA? 

*Remus3:*
Practice, practice and avoid PayPal like the devil himself.. it is causing more problems in scam attempts that not, I use PayPal legally for my business of sorts. also learn to code, it is a GREAT attribute to have ; use it for scamming or for a future career, but html, java, even C++/VB is a good plus to know.

[BREAK=Chenquie]
*Forever:*
Okay let's kick off with the first question: How did you get in touch with scamming? 

*Chenquie:*
I've been scamming pretty much on all communities, games etc I've played.
I started off with a community called LunarStorm, were I scammed people to buy me extra features on the site, making me one of the most popular. Then I started to scam them for money, got around $1000 a month just from 10 minutes of work. 
After LunarStorm I started to play WoW, I played legit for 2 years or so then I got bored and it was so much going on with my life so I had to get some stuff the illegitimate way, so I thought back on those good ol' LunarStorm days and I started to use it again to scam some WoW accounts. 
The success wasn't great at all, maybe one account in a month. I got bored really quick and gave up scamming for a while. I even gave up WoW too. 
Then some months later I was thinking “what the heck let’s give it another shot”, so I googled some stuff like "WoW Scamming" etc. and it lead me here to MMOwned. 

*Forever:*
What was originally your drive to start scamming on LunarStorm, which marks the start of your career? 

 *Chenquie:*
I just started, out of nowhere. I got the idea to trick people to get me stuff, and hell it worked. 

* Forever:*
Can you remember the very first scam you've used in your game, and also the very first scam on WoW? 

*Chenquie**:*
The first scam I used was the login phishing site. I whispered people in game about logging in on my link to get cool stuff. 

*Forever**:*
Haha that sounds like it wasn't very successful, or was it? 

*Chenquie:*
Nah it wasn’t. Then I started to do some good ol' Righteous Orb scams, Turtle Mount scams & Backspace scam after reading some threads here on MMOwned. Which turned out to have a really high success rate 

*Forever:*
Can you remember your most successful scam so far? 

*Chenquie:*
Yeah email phishing, just collection shitloads of accounts. Then sending them email about they need to login to verify their information. And when they did login I got username/password/sqa etc. Got some really nice accounts. And some really nice money as well 

*Forever:*
Did you get to keep any of those or were they all recalled? 

*Chenquie:*
Some were recalled but yeah I successfully sold some for around $300-$500 too. $300-$500 each, and I sold 20

*Forever:*
Do you never feel bad for the people you scam? I personally would be bothered about it for days, maybe even weeks.
 
*Chenquie* 
Nope, not ever. I don’t know why really. But no, never got bothered. 

*Forever:*
Well as you may or may not know, I am very against scamming and that is because people that get scammed, usually kids, work hard on their accounts and then someone tricks them into taking them. What do you think about people like me, any hatred for them? 

*Chenquie:*
Everyone got their own point of view on scamming. Can't blame them really. No need to whine about it.
I just don't feel sorry for people I don't know. And really if you get scammed once you get smarter and you will most likely not get scammed again. 
But lately I have only scammed Chinese scammers because of... yeah they scam.

* Forever:*
Seeing that you are an experienced scammer, you have access to the ESA forums, what do you think about that place? 

*Chenquie:*
ESA is nothing special really. Most of the members got scared of the so called 'Jackals' and run away saying "I SUPPORT WHAT THEY ARE DOING OMG OMG" even though they are coldblooded scammers inside.
That's not what I call a elite scamming association. 

*Forever**:*
It may not contain the bravest people then, but the guys on top of the hierarchy are always the smartest and not the bravest, that would mean that ESA should, despite the jackals, still contain good ideas on how to scam, did you ever find threads in this forum useful? 

*Chenquie:*
No, I didn't. That's why I don't see it all special and stuff. 
There is way better stuff posted in the regular WoW Scams- forum 

*Forever**:*
So your opinion on this matter is that the ESA forums should close? 

*Chenquie:*
Not close but yeah, maybe get some better scammers from other sites, not only MMOwned. 
Maybe would improve it.

*Forever**:*
Ok, this leads us to the final question! You're almost there!
Have you ever gotten in any trouble from your scamming activities? 
*
Chenquie:*
Nope, never. 

*Forever**:* 
Ok Chenquie, I would like to thank you for participating in our (first) interview. Thank you for your time and you will probably see yourself popping up on the news page any time.

[BREAK=Mea.Culpa]
*Forever:*
Hello Mea.Culpa. Thank you for your time for taking the interview. Let's begin with the first question. 
How did you get in touch with scamming? 

*Mea.Culpa:*
I used to play wow on my brothers level 70 Warlock, I like to play at level 70 but I was too darn lazy to actually level my character to that level so I started thinking of other ways... Buying an account? no money.... Power leveling? again... no money... So I ran in to MMOwned's scamming section and I thought I would give it a try. 

*Forever:*
How long ago did you start scamming? 

*Mea.Culpa:*
Wow... erhmm... let me think about this one....
I believe that the first scam I did was one month after I joined MMOwned... so I guess it's 9 months ago, somewhere around that time 

*Forever:*
Can you remember the very first scam you've executed? Was it any successful? 

*Mea.Culpa:*
Haha, glad you asked this.
My first scam was the email scam where you send out an email from a Blizzlike address asking for his info... the first guy I sent this to send all his info to me. I have played that acc for ages and then sold-recalled it 

*Forever:*
Heh, can you remember for how much you sold it?

*Mea.Culpa:*
I believe I sold my first for €400... the gear was good at that time.
Nowadays I either sell the accounts I scam to a website, give them away to friends or just play on them until they get banned/recalled.

*Forever:*
What did you do with the money? 

*Mea.Culpa:*
Bought an iPhone and some cc info. 

*Forever:*
Didn't your parents get suspicious that you suddenly had an iPhone? 

*Mea.Culpa:*
Well, no actually... I make lots of money with other things so they weren't that surprised that I could afford an iPhone 

*Forever:*
Do you get a lot of other ideas from the MMOwned scamming section? 

*Mea.Culpa:*
Hmmm... Well, I got some great ideas on how to steal a game card... -.- No but seriously... Scamming section is pretty dead at the moment.
The only guy I really learned from is Neth'Zul... OH AND Hasselhoff 

*Forever:*
How about the ESA forums, anything useful in there or is it just a waste of forum space? 

*Mea.Culpa:*
I am not in ESA at the moment, I might join again... I was in Comsa and to be really honest with you... when I was in Comsa it was a bit of a waste... 

*Forever:*
Where do you pick your targets that you scam?

* Mea.Culpa:*
Used to do Markeedragon till the Jackals came along and now I only do Dutch sites and Chinese scammers. 

*Forever:*
Do you never feel bad for the people you scam? Especially because you're scamming people from the same country 

*Mea.Culpa:*
My motto is: "When you are dumb enough to get scammed you deserve it" no really... when you are getting scammed you have to notice that I am not giving you anything for the account. 

*Forever:*
So they deserve their account taken away from them because they have too much trust in people? 

*Mea.Culpa:*
I am in such an adrenaline rush when I scam that I don't know what is happening 
I am a very nice guy IRL but when I scam I just put my mind to scam modus and I go go go 

*Forever:*
Has your scamming ever brought you in any trouble?

*Mea.Culpa:*
Yes... it has actually... I had some very angry people at my door because I was dumb enough to scam on this email address. I normally only scam on [email protected] or [email protected] 

*Forever:*
What did you do to solve them ? 

*Mea.Culpa:*
Social Engineering baby! I just talked them in to thinking they have the wrong guy. 

*Forever:* 
This marks the end of our conversation. I want to thank you for your time, you will see your story on MMOwned soon!

[BREAK=Fear]
*Forever:*
Welcome [F]ear and thank you for your time. Let's begin the interview! 
How did you get in touch with scamming? 

*[F]ear:*
Via my IRL friend [M]illo, from MMOwned. 

*Forever:*
What had happened that made you start the business? 

*[F]ear:*
I got scammed myself, lost like 100 gold in pre-TBC. 

*Forever:*
How long ago was the day you started? 

* [F]ear:*
I think I started about 2 years ago
 
*Forever:*
Can you remember the very first scam you've used? Was it any successful?

*[F]ear:*
It was very successful. It was the backspace scam, it's a really good scam.

* Forever:*
Can you give a short description of how the backspace scam works? 

*[F]ear:*
Find a victim who's selling a rare item or so -> Trade him/her -> Insert the money he/she wants -> Wait for the desired item to appear in the window -> Quickly remove the gold from the trade window -> Press trade -> Hopefully he/she will not notice that the money disappeared, and accept the trade. 

*Forever:
*What do you do with all the accounts you scam?*[F]ear:
*I usually just give them away to friends to play on for a while.*
Forever:*
Do you often look in the MMOwned scamming section for new ideas on how to effectively scam? 

*[F]ear:*
No, can't be much more effective than it's now.

* Forever:*
So you're saying that lately there are no good scams posted?

*[F]ear:*
No, there is some really good scam out there now, but they’re way overused. 

*Forever:*
What scam method do you use the most? 

*[F]ear:*
Good question. At this time I'm mostly scamming accounts, with a method that I'm not willing to give up, at this moment. 
*
Forever:*
Where do you pick your targets for it? 

*[F]ear:*
Websites like markeedragon.com 

*Forever:*
Aren't you afraid of that whole jackal hype going on at markeedragon? 

*[F]ear:*
I am, but I'm doing my best to secure myself. 

*Forever:*
Do you never feel bad for the people you scam? You have been scammed yourself so you should know what it feels like. 

*[F]ear:*
I do, but I hope they learn a lesson, like I did. 

*Forever:*
Has scamming ever brought you in trouble?

*[F]ear:*
No. As I said, I'm doing my best to secure myself. If I ever should get in trouble, I would take it as it comes. 

*Forever:*
Seeing that you are an experienced scammer I suppose you have heard of ESA. What do you think of that community and are you perhaps trying to get in it? 

*[F]ear:*
I like the idea of ESA, but I'm not trying to get into it. Because I wouldn't make a lifestyle out of it. 

*Forever:*
Ok that's it [F]ear. Thank you for your time, see you around. 

*[**F]ear:*
No problem, bye!

[BREAK=Chrommie]
*Forever:*
Hello Chrommie and thank you for your time. Let's begin right away with the first question! 
How did you get in touch with scamming? 

*Chrommie:*
At first I didn’t know what was that ... I joined a site called MMOwned to exploit private servers but then I saw a scamming section and I saw how can you get accounts on the Live server ... I thought ... I’m too pro for emu servers and I started learning to scam 

*Forever:*
How long ago was it that you started? 

*Chrommie:*
Around 5 months ago 

*Forever:*
Can you remember the very first scam you've executed and was it any successful? 

*Chrommie:*
Yeah , I scammed a 12 year old kiddy’s hunter and made it my own(main)

*Forever:*
What method did you use for that?

*Chrommie:*
I got him to "Trade his char" for my awesome t6 warrior 

*Forever:*
Have you gotten any good ideas from the MMOwned scamming section? 

*Chrommie:*
Yeah , can’t remember which ones though 

*Forever:* 
What scamming method do you use the most now a days? 

*Chrommie:*
It's personal but uhh.. I make a level 1 on a scamming account and make a macro saying how you can sign up for WotLK and do /who 70 rogue/druid/mage/priest/hunter/warrior/paladin/warlock/whatever
and use it at evry1 who comes up on my list ... Awesome results 

*Forever:*
Do you never feel bad for the ones whose account you take? 

*Chrommie:*
Nope... it's just a game. People who take it seriously are just Wrong/Sick/Not normal 

*Forever:*
You work hard for, you put maybe 2 years of work in it and some ******* takes your account and says "it's only a game" do you think that is normal? 

*Chrommie:*
2 years should make you un scam able but if u do indeed get scammed... it's just game over ... you just start over and learn from your mistakes 

*Forever:*
Have you ever heard of ESA? What do you think about that community? 

*Chrommie:*
I've heard of it alright ... those guys are the best scammers out there and I want to join them sometime 

*Forever:*
Has your scamming ever brought you in any trouble? 

*Chrommie:*
Scamming video game characters can’t possibly get u in trouble in my country 

*Forever:*
It doesn't have to be the police, it can also be people spamming your mailbox or something like that, nothing of that ever happened to you? 

*Chrommie:*
Nope 

*Forever:*
Ok Chrommie that was all, thanks again for your time 

*Chrommie:* 
Thanks

[BREAK=Hasselhoff - by Obama]
*Obama*:
How did you get in touch with scamming

*Hasselhoff:*
Well, I had always been taking advantage of people in many games (WC3, Diablo, WoW, etc) and when I found MMOwned, my scamming exploded ten-fold. Having a community of people who thought like me made me get so much more in touch with scamming

*Obama:*
How long have you been scamming?

*Hasselhoff:*
Hmm.. I'd say about 5 or 6 years.

*Obama:*
Can you remember the very first scam you've executed? Did it work?

*Hasselhoff:*
I honestly can't remember my first ever scam, but I do vividly remember my first WoW Scam. It was Pre-BC of course, and I was showing my friend WoW, and I was thinking about really trading my account. Then my scamming side kicked in, and I started thinking why would I want to trade when I could have TWO accounts, and my friend could play with me. That night I scammed a extremely crappy geared Orc Shaman for my friend.

*Forever:
*What do you do with everything you scam?*Hasselhoff:
*Generally I use it for myself or my friends. If I've gotten it with another person, we of course share it, or I let them have it. Generally most of the stuff I get goes to my RL friends because I don't have much use for it. 
*
Obama:*
Do you get a lot of good ideas from the MMOwned scamming section?

*Hasselhoff:*
Quite frankly, no. Most of it is reposts with maybe a few words changed here and there. Alot of it has to do with phishing also which I never got into. Most of my ideas are my own. Every now and then something good will pop up in the scam section but it is very unlikely nowadays. It's almost as if there is a limited amount of scams untill Blizzard changes the way they do something.

*Obama:*
Where do you pick your targets?

*Hasselhoff:*
Markeedragon or buysellmmo

*Obama:*
What scam are you using the most?

*Hasselhoff:*
Right now I use my own scam with which I get TCG Codes/Some Accounts. I have not released it to the public for I am perfecting/don't want it nerfed yet.

*Obama:*
What has your most successful scam been so far?

*Hasselhoff:*
It depends on your definiton of successful. I'd say for me personally, it was when I was able to scam 2 Spectral Tiger Codes for me and my friend at once ( About a $2,000 Value ) I even got the cards sent to a P.O Box I had rented. 

*Obama:*
Do you ever feel remorse for your victims?

*Hasselhoff:*
No. You can't if you're going to scam. The way I look at it, if you fall for a scam, you deserve to loose whatever it was you were risking.

*Obama:*
How long have you been a member of COMSA/ESA?

*Hasselhoff:*
Since it was formed, I was also a member of MSA (MMOwned Scammers Association) which was before COMSA/ESA

*Obama:*
What do you think of that place and its forums?

*Hasselhoff:*
It's allright, not a whole lot going on in there right now, but it is a refreshing change from the normal Scamming Forum.

*Obama:*
Alright, thanks for your time. It was a great interview.

*Obama:*
You'll se ethis goin up sometime soon

*Hasselhoff says:*
Ok thank you

-- Thank you Obama for doing this interview for me  :Smile:

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## KuRIoS

Good interview, nice to finally see it up

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## p0ke

Great interviews.. 
Good job people! :]

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## piree

> -- Note: Remus3 has been caught shoplifting a few days later and was put in jail for the night. He is currently not scamming anymore.


I remember when he posted a shoplifting thread in ESA, I told him he should quit with it or he would get caught soon, but he didn't listen  :Frown:  So people don't think you will get away with it cause you are "always lucky" or "a pro" in it. And for scamming, first learn how to secure your safety before starting  :Smile: 

- And Forever, very nice interview  :Smile:

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## KuRIoS

indeed piree and in the end, a scammer is nothing more than a thief.

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## Remus

true i dont condone scamming personally i been moving away from it and lol i had the securest route man; there is always the unknown factor ; humans

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## Nolixz

Wait.. Remus3, you scammed I.R.L?

anyway, good to see the interview up..

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## Remus

mmhmm more than shoplifting too; but i ****ed up on that Friday afternoon in walmart(went to target earlier.. WAY TOO much security) and they assigned 3 secret shoppers to me; if you ever had a person IN your comfort sphere and how agitated you get ... 3 of em aint better.

I tried getting into the bathrooms but 1 was a guy so i tried to leave and I submitted rather than run out due to a friend being with me and he cant run like I can.


[email protected]; I was only put in jail for a Misdemeanor Class B ; 
THEFT PROP>=$50<$500 10/03/2008 - Held Bond: $500.00 Status: Released
Court Date: Nov, 14 (I expect either 10 weekends in jail; or 1 year probation)

Hopefully going headlong into Software Engineering; here on mmowned ive been looking into ME, and EMU

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## KuRIoS

> Wait.. Remus3, you scammed I.R.L?
> 
> anyway, good to see the interview up..


You are all scamming IRL... THIS is not a game you know... 
Theft over the internet is still stealing.

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## Nolixz

The shit we steal, is from a Video game.
It's not a direct theft, it's not illegal.

I don't do steal other stuff.

There is a difference.

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## Forever

Don't turn this into a war now, see for yourselves what you think of it but keep your opinion for yourself  :Smile:

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## KuRIoS

> The shit we steal, is from a Video game.
> It's not a direct theft, it's not illegal.
> 
> I don't do steal other stuff.
> 
> There is a difference.


But you steal the virtual stuff that you can sell for REAL money, hence it is theft. 

and Forever an article is here to start a debate as well we might as well discuss it here  :Smile:

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## Remus

dont forget as well; such admins have called upon scammers, I know i did was wrong; i was punished for it and I accept it as such. would I do it again, probably not. HENCE why I have stopped scamming etc.

I believe it has prevented me from entering other places *cough* Emu expert.. I was doing and maintaining my own Emu server (self compiled not some shit repack) long before entering the scene in scams, and though I try as much as I can, they wont accept me 1) GP hasnt "seen" work from me here. why? because at that point in time it was worthless to attempt, reposter galore/spam heaven etc. 
2) They have this innate thought process of idk wtf im doing and only got a #33 server (this was back when extreme top 100 came about.) from a repack that "anyone can do" .. NOT ONCE have I at least been interviewed nor would they ask to see any work. I spent a year on AC-Web. I developed on their repack with Nate. Do they care. obviously not. anyways im off track.

Scamming was a viable choice for me to excel in, I took that side path and sometimes regret it. I lost a few personal accounts though I have made quite a bundle of money. 

If I could do it over again.. I wouldnt have chosen the scam section. Thats the way the cookie crumbled.

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## Forever

I do not agree with scamming (You can see that a bit in my conversation with Chrommie).

I think taking accounts from (usually kids) is just unfair and a little degrading even. Scammers always say they deserve it because they are stupid but how would you feel after an account where you've put a lot of work in got taken out of your hands and that someone else is now playing on it?
You may say "It's just a game" but if you put a lot of work in your account, which most people do, it's always sad to have it taken away.

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## Hellgawd

*Excellent work!*

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## Verye

> But you steal the virtual stuff that you can sell for REAL money, hence it is theft. 
> 
> and Forever an article is here to start a debate as well we might as well discuss it here


Not in US law it isn't. Stealing an account is not considered theft in the US.

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## KuRIoS

I dont give a **** what US law says.. it is stealing no matter how you look at it and you know it, I hope someone breaks into every scammers house, steals ur personal belongings, pictures that cant be replaced etc... then burns it all outside with a note "It is just a game to me"

sry if that offends someone but i dont really care  :Smile:  it is my opinion

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## Mr. Moose

I have to agree with Kur. 

Some accounts I've seen being scammed contained a lot of 70's or very good characters, the owner of the account put a lot of of time in it and lost it.

Let's say u saved money for 2 years to buy that one special thing you always wanted , then someone steals it and smiles while saying "get a better security"

I mean you can't even normally sell an account on markee because it is filled with hackers..

And it is stealing since you paid 12 euro's a month for your account so if someone stole your account after you played it a year he kinda stole 140 euro from you.

It's not because you stole something virtual that you can't be called a thief.

just my 2 cents.

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## Neth'zul

Why am I not there? lol nice interview  :Big Grin:

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## Verye

> I dont give a **** what US law says.. it is stealing no matter how you look at it and you know it, I hope someone breaks into every scammers house, steals ur personal belongings, pictures that cant be replaced etc... then burns it all outside with a note "It is just a game to me"
> 
> sry if that offends someone but i dont really care  it is my opinion


Well, you're absolutely right. It is stealing, but in the eyes of the law it is not stealing. Stealing is a felonious crime, and scamming WoW accounts (unless by phishing or using keyloggers), is not a crime. Sorry, I'm just sensitive to legal terms in general...so, yes, WoW account scamming is indeed stealing, but it is not _criminal_ stealing.

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## KuRIoS

In US arent Oral agreements binding? they are in Denmark meaning 99% of scams are infact illegal. Done by phishers, keyloggers or the likes as well.

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## Krip

Too big for me to read the whole thing but well done.

Laughs @ Remus!

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## Obama

Glad I could help you out in interviewing man.

btw, if i look at my referral sheet for Forumbooster there is a person that registered named Kurios. Might be you, might not. But if it was you then your signing up on the intent of scamming the company of out of hundreds of dolars  :Smile: . Unless you were actually going to post for real.

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## Hasselhoff

Glad to see this up, might want to edit my page, its got a line problem on the fourth question. It has Forever asking a question instead of Obama, and my name is on the wrong line  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Nonetheless, nice piece of work.

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## Apoc

On the note about US law: Oral agreements aren't legally binding. (Meaning scamming some idiot out of an account is not illegal)

However, selling the account is. (As per Blizzards copyright which strictly forbids it.)

Also, very nice work guys. Fairly short interviews, but no silly content. Very well done.

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## JD

Forever's not a scammer friendly guy  :Stick Out Tongue: 


Anyway, great interviews

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## DeMoN

just one correction....i'm sure you meant branch not root.

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## Matt

intersting interview.. its kinda funny how everyones favorite place to scam is the place thats discouraged by mmowned the most.. kind've but not really.

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## dfk

whether its virtual or irl if you take something without permission that doesnt belong to you its stealing

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## Remus

-edited out- but yea ive stopped regardless

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## Innit

About the Illegal to sell it thing.

The loophole is to make it that they are paying you for the time and effort invested in the character, and you are giving them the account for free.
It does not howver get past the sharing accounts thing in blizzards EULA.

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## [Royal]

I a really hurt actually, this was my idea and I was going to be put in it, but I was never contacted.

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## Remus

Scamming interview - Why did some popular scammers start scamming? - MD Account WoW WAR AOC FFXI RuneScape L2 Warcraft Warhammer Buy Sell and Trade


for reference of where most of the NICE. NON FLAMING. NOT ARGUMENTATIVE NATURE posts are at . it is a friendly discussion on not scamming but the fact of MMOwned being called a scamming site, and a few side tracks but as you will see the troll's are mostly ignored and we arent saying (excluding mea ...) that we dont care.

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## Koleo

i scam all the time you might aswell not act like u dont like scamming guys i mean this is what the site is for

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## Forever

> i scam all the time you might aswell not act like u dont like scamming guys i mean this is what the site is for


The website wasn't made for scamming at all

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## Remus

> i scam all the time you might aswell not act like u dont like scamming guys i mean this is what the site is for


YOU are NOT MMOwned. YOU DONT make up the majority of MMOwned.

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## Flawz

I think it's time we removed the scamming section all-together...

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## Remus

they wont; reason= Traffic. its understandable.. that and google will get very mad if a whoe section of a few thousand posts goes missing/ or redirected

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## [Royal]

Well WTF Let scammers scam. I don't tell you people how to do your job, so don't tell me how t o do mine. Remus PM me the freaking password to ESA or w/e it is because you changed it.

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## 7itanium

I was supposed to be in this interview lol... anyway to all the ant-scammers

It is totally different then breaking into someones house and stealing personal items-- I agree scamming on WoW is infact stealing

but it is a game-- and the WoW account isnt something that can be kept forever anyway-- it belongs to blizzard ent.. not you

so I am stealing from blizzard-- and im stealing a character on a video game-- IMO the people that get butthurt over it need to get a life

its a game-- shouldnt be taken that seriusly

I have had legit accounts stolen/banned before and I just laugh because its only a game

maybe thats why I dont think its a big deal- I dont even get pissed when I get scammed really

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